It List: Wed. 4/5/06
As is often the case these days, Denton is the place to be tonight. Shocker.
1. The Pharmacy/Eat Avery's Bones/Mathstorm/ Chief Death Rage/Nouns Group/Daniel Francis Doyle (J&J's Pizza- Denton) First of all this is a FREE show, and BYOB as always. Also, we pretty much like every band that is playing at this thing. This show will be worth the drive for anyone that is curious about what is going on in Denton lately. I know its a bitch of a drive for Dallasites, especially on the weekdays, but give it a shot. Wednesday is the new Thursday anyway.
2. The Party w/ DJ Nature (rubber gloves-Denton): The usual. If you're up in Denton for one of the shows tonight, you should do yourself a favor and stop by.
An Albatross is also playing at Hailey's tonight, and while we aren't huge fans, we figured that some of you were.... so there you go.
posted by stonedranger at 2:46 PM
55 Comments:
For Dallas folks there is also the
Deadboy & the Elephantmen
,The Strange Boys show at the gypsy tonight.
congrats on your dallas observer nomination for best music website/blog
thanks
The Night Game is opening for An Albatross. The Night Game is Denton after dark!...
The Night Game
i seriously doubt the show is BYOB, no shows are at JnJs.
I was going up for An Albatross. I may go up early now and hit both.
hmmm... maybe I'm wrong. I thought that shows at J and J's were BYOB. Am I an idiot? Anyone?
blixaboy you should go early to see the night game.
J&J's is neve BYOB. I don't know where you got that info.
The basement at J&J's is one of the best places to see creative artists making unique music (most of the time). However, and I think the wizard behind We Shot JR, since he/she/it has made it quite clear to hold no opinions back, may appreciate this bit of muckraking- the basement is the only good thing about the place! The service is beyond horrible. Maybe it is good if you happen to know the pretentious employees, but to all of those who aren't cool enough to "get it" the service is appalling. No hello, no response, no thank you, just attitude. They act as if they are actually doing you a favor as opposed to doing their job to the customer who is supporting their business and their livelihood. The food is sub-sub standard and overpriced. And would you really want to eat food from rude and mean people who go outside and smoke, pick up trash and don’t wear gloves anyway? I once saw one of the workers put his hands all over the floor, no gloves, then vigorously scratched his hair, took trash to the dumpster while smoking a cigarette and then went straight to the kitchen and brought out a customer’s cheese sticks. Poor customer just ate fecal matter and all the other repulsive things that were on the employee’s hands. I also once saw an employees come downstairs put her bare hands inside one of the buckets catching dirty leaking water (from who knows where) so she could move it, then less than 2 minutes later came back downstairs serving pizza. Are we supposed to just accept this behavior because the employees are hip? J&J's is a Denton establishment. The idea is wonderful. The basement is beautiful for its simplicity and the amazing talent that passes through there for little or no cover. Upstairs is a different story. Unless your idea of a good dining experience entails extremely poor hygiene, completely rude, unfriendly and lengthy service, and an overpriced menu full of poor quality foods, it would be best to go straight down the stairs. The staff is quite frankly inhumane.
move to austin.. get that type of service everywhere..
uhhhhh, sink in kitchen. just sayin. sorry you had such an experience there, but it sounds like yours was exceptionally horrific - an extreme. i hope you give it another try, as the place is a mainstay for many dentonites old and young alike.
yeah everytime i have been to denton its as clean as a whistle
If what he says is true, then that really sucks.... because what the guy right after him said is true too. Service in Austin is usually TERRIBLE, especially at the hipster places. I cannot fucking stand the blue haired waiter from Austin who thinks you owe him something other that a tip simply because he is serving you food. I'll really never understand how people like that can't at least be civil.
I don't know anything about J&J's because I've never been there, but that is one of the things that I hate about Austin, and part of the reason why it is one of the most overrated cities in the United States.
Hey...
Mike from Shiny here. J n' J's isn't BYOB, but then neither are most places in Denton and I know oh so many people who make frequent bathroom visits with flasks - scandalous! Not that I suggest such action as J n’ J’s has a few beers on tap. Shiner!
I frequent J n' J's quite a bit for lunch as it is good pizza-centric Texas/Italian food that is reasonably priced and all hand made (no Ben E. Keith pre-packaged action). I mean, well, it is as good as you are going to get in North Texas. I generally judge my Italian restaurants on the number of old guys in Adidas track suits out sitting front on a weekday at about 3:00 in the afternoon, and well, there is none of that... but, mmm... try the beef cannoli...mmmm...
I chuckled quite hardily about the hipster service. Okay, yes, there is somewhat of an attitude to a degree, but honestly, it is just the attitude of, man, I have to work? No way, that sucks! Keep in mind, Denton is a college town. All of us are raging against the man to some degree. The employees I know are all very nice and interesting once you know them. The management has been very gracious to let all sorts of forward thinking bands play in their basement on a constant basis, which has been a great thing for the town. The PA, though, sucks beyond all stretches of the imagination! Eh, but if you think far enough ahead of time, someone can bring their own or some other arrangements made. The basement is really one of the best venues in Denton aside from the PA situation.
I am bummed I missed the show tonight. Again, just another time the man (multi-variate regression analysis in this case) has kept me down.
I'd say J&J's is definitely one of the best establishments Denton has to offer. You can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want down there (musically). Yeah, there's the PA situation, but I think that more times than not, it keeps a lot of the bullshit bands that feel like they "need" a PA from playing there. Those that do (and love to) play there are either a) resourceful enough to find a PA or b) not concerned and just run vocals through a guitar amp borrowed from a friend or something.
What I'm getting at is that there are very few places that I'd rather see a show at. I'd say about 80% of my best show-going experiences have taken place in J&J's basement. Definitely.
I've actually had pretty good service at J&J's compared to the craphole that is The Tomato. At least at J&J's I don't have some gutter punk hitting me up for a slice.
I'm looking forward to figuring it out for myself the next time there is a good weekend show there that I can actually make it up for.
Man... That dude was REALLY mad at a pizza place!
I am not mad, I just don't believe in making excuses for bad services. Being a college town is no excuse for poor attitude, poor service and mean people. Many customers don't have the time to get to know the employees and even if one did, why would one want to, after one was just treated with such contempt? The Morrissey lyric comes to mind: “Why do I give valuable time to people who don’t care if I live or die”?
None of the comments in this thread seriously addressed the hygiene issue either. Honestly, do you want to eat food served by unclean hands? Also, if these people are apathetic to work, and have a negative attitude to people who are supporting them, do you really think they are enthusiastic about the preparation of the food? The health issue alone is disgusting and worthy of notice; the combination of an unclean environment and atrocious service is just horrific! Just because we want to support non-corporate business doesn't mean we should support all of them, simply because they happen to be independent. If anything they need to realize that they need to improve as the sprawl keeps getting closer and closer to the square. I am not asking for whistles and bells here. I am just asking for simple respect that every person deserves in general and in the business/customer relationship. J&J's is not the only guilty party. Jupiter House is horrible as well. I had to wait for service for close to five minutes one time and I was the only one in line. The employee was busy talking to a friend and then acted mad because I interrupted them. I was polite and I didn't even receive a thank you. That was not a single experience. The service has been continually poor. Recycled Books staff is the same way. I could go on and on.
On a positive note, Mr. Chopsticks is a great example of a Denton mainstay and independent business that is excellent!!!! The food is beyond good and the service is always friendly and unique. It is a fairly clean environment as well. They are a star amidst rude, elitist, aristocratic people who treat their community with such viciousness that they ironically become anti-community; the bottom line is that they are a business which is slowly destroying itself. Once again, the basement is a great place for music. To all elitist employees across the globe: the customer isn't the “man”. This isn’t Empire Records.
The Tomato is just a waste of prime space that needs to be demolished... it is like a cross between the Road Warrior The Hills Have Eyes Toxic Avenger Super Size Me and some bad 80's movie about a pizza joint-
stonedranger made a good point it is a simple issue of being civil.
Ha!
i was trying to say that wakka wakka's post was funny, but i looked at what i did (typed Ha!) and realized how annoying it is when people do that. so, um, i thought your post was funny wakka wakka.
and have you noticed how proud and happy people that live in austin are of the fact that they live in austin? they act like they've won some kind of lotto or something.
Congrats, you get to live in a giant suburb full of boring white people!
once when i was at j&j's warren hearne got up on the counter and cut a huge log on top of my pepperoni pie all while playing leonard cohen on an accoustic guitar. this was very disturbing to me cause i hate cohen.
i'm not annonymous, but striesand god damm it.
all the people that talk shit about austin are usually dentonites that wish denton was austin. anything cool about denton is just like a miniature version of the same thing in austin. i wish denton would stay polite. they don't have a whole lot to be snobby about. everyone i know from denton constantly hates on austin. why is denton so threatened by the world wide perception that austin is cool? actually, dentonites have a shitty attitude about austin, dallas, and houston. why? most dentonites are college people who are originally from irving, allen, frisco, burleson, plano etc. then they move to denton for a couple of years and talk endless shit to people who live anywhere else. i don't get the same weird little commune vibe off of people in austin. that's because they don't have to prove to other people that their town is really cool and nobody but them knows it. denton bands, scenesters etc. have the most insecure and defensive attitude about denton. as a disclaimer i like a lot of these people and i have to bite my tongue when they start in with their rallying cry about how much cooler their town is than all the surrounding suburbs, cities etc. just because NPR called your town "unglamorous" you want to start a riot. who cares? most towns in north texas have been called much worse. be glad all the best shows come through your town. even though the population of the town is much smaller than all the other big surrounding cities. for the record i enjoy some denton bands, and i love J&J's and even the tomato. but the scene attitude, man. calm the fuck down, bearded dudes. also keep this in mind:even though everyone in denton is cool and they know everything about music etc. your town can't even keep one real record store open. not one real store. X records, johnny law, seasick etc. all casualties. until you can keep one of these fuckers open for longer than a couple of years, you'll always be second to other places.
ok, i'm a dallasite and have to come to the defense of denton. Being in a band, i look much more forward to playing shows in denton than dallas. A couple reasons why??
People seem to pull from better music knowledge
Sound guys on the whole are much better...JC for example
They play better music in between sets...been to curtain club lately???? me either
but on the other hand suburbia is catching up to denton and hailey's is a good example of a dallas club set in the middle of denton...
i'm not anonymous, i'm streisand
wakka wakka, i wasn't necessarily saying it towards you. it was towards the attitude of a lot of people i know. your comments might have made me think about them. i'm from the dallas area myself. i've spent too much time (weeks and months) in both towns. and to streisand:
playing denton is much more enjoyable than playing dallas. agreed.
JC is pretty much the shit. agreed. i wanted to rush to his defense when I heard someone putting him down last night.
hailey's is a million dollar piece of shit. agreed.
This is turning into a Denton vs. Austin/Dallas/Houston conversation. The idea of civility is being ignored. Do you really want to give your hard earned money to people who treat other people who aren't like them disrespectfully? Doesn't that go against the very values that they are supposedly trying to espouse by being independent- caring for the small guy? Would you give your money to an establishment run by the KKK? These businesses are the same only instead of racial profiling they exercise a prejudice rooted in their culture of elitism targeted against anyone who is not like them or in their group. What we are getting is a passive-aggressive form of super-elitism served with a multitude of germs. Do you really want to support that? Let an independent business that will actually have and provide respect and contribute to its community in a positive way move into these spaces.
1. Use soap and wash your hands thoroughly before you bake my pie, before you serve me my pie and after you leave the crapper.
2. The poor Native Americans that died for this whole big piece of land would cry that these college kids who should be smarter than to keep their head up their asses think this whole Denton/Dallas/Austin/Houston nonsense is even an issue.
Lots of New Yorkers move to Austin, nowdays. Even Gerard Cosloy. This argument is silly. Plano rules.
I'm from Dallas as well, and I like Denton better than Dallas AND I like Dallas better than Austin. I know that Dallas isn't nearly as "cool" as Austin, but that, like Wakka said, is what I like about it. In Austin, it feels like everyone is exactly like me, and like I don't ever have to encounter anyone that isn't upwardly mobile, white and somewhat hip... or at least wealthy enough to buy their hipness.
In Dallas, you have to be around all different kinds of people all the time, even people that you might not really care for, and that is what I like about it. In Dallas, it feels like being into underground music and art, etc. means a little more because such a small percentage of the population is the same. Although the "scene" really does suck in Dallas, and many of the hipsters in this town are truly shallow, ignorant wastes of coke snorting space, I feel like Austin is the same way... only they don't want to admit it. No one there does. They treat the place like its some goddamn utopia because there is a really big Whole Foods and some guys that play hacky sack.
Although there are some great bands in Austin and some cool places to go and cool people to meet, I feel like it is an overblown, overcrowded and overrated place that is cool only because there is a college there. Independent of UT, there is nothing cool about Austin.
And I've never experienced Denton snobbery towards Dallas. Has anyone else?
I've experienced more than my fair share of denton snobbery towards dallas. Ask most denton people what they think of when you say the word, "Dallas". See how positive the response is.
Nothing cool about Austin? Try:
End of An Ear Records
Sound on Sound Records
Snake Eyes Records
Waterloo Records
Tons of Vegetarian places to eat (and i'm a carnivore)
The Parlor Pizza Venue
Monkeywrench Books
The best Mexican, Italian, and almost any kind of food in Texas
24 hour breakfast and food places that aren't the Kettle or Ihop
Book People
Generally inclusive Environment
East and South sides and their incredibly diverse environments (not straight gentrification)
"Although there are some great bands in Austin and some cool places to go and cool people to meet, I feel like it is an overblown, overcrowded and overrated place that is cool only because there is a college there."
stonedranger, you stole the words right out of my brain.
my 2 cents. I get a lot of attitude from a lot of denton scenesters. My roommates and I were the first people to start bringing touring acts on the DIY circuit back in 1993 at Wannabe Manor. Back Denton bands played dallas more often and Dallas bands played Denton way more often. There was always a little denton vs Dallas going on, but never like this. I notice a lot of attitude about how much cooler Denton is than Dallas. I am willing to bet most of the people spouting that bullshit probably have never actually hung out in Dallas outside of going to see some roadshow. The cavern has awesome DJ's 5 to 6 nights a week. Not just me. I went there last night and they have a guy spinning Dub all night while DJ G(from Denton) was downstairs. Lee Harvey's is a great bar with good people. Disturbathon is cooler than anything anyone in denton could ever concieve of. Arts avenue has great events like the Lollipop Shoppe and The Smoke. Good and unique Dallas bands: Monks of Saturnalia, Silk Stocking, Unconcious Collective, The Black Arm Band, Mazinga Phaser II, Paper Chase, Jack with One Eye, Flipside Quartet, Shanghai 5, Blackheart Society, The Strange Boys, Prayer for Animals, The Tah Dahs, Happy Bullets, Ciao, Laptop Deathmatch(featuring almost 30 different laptop artists), Treewave, Linea Triste, Acolyte, Bundle of Joy, Dreamtigers, Zygote,The Shapes,Bexametric and a plethora of good free Jazz and Improv combos...............If you really think Denton is that much better it is because you are to lazy to come to dallas and see what is really going on down here. If you depend on the observer to know what is happening in this town you are gonna miss most of the more interesting stuff.
there are so many good things happening in every section of the metroplex... there is probably some kid in his bedroom right now in the mid-cities making some incredible music... Dallas has always had and will continue to have many cool things, fort worth has the metrognome collective going on right now, hemphill 1919, spiral diner and Denton has many good bands doing some cool things right now... this division and hostility towards one another is not only so west side story it is completely non-beneficial to our metropolis.
p.s. For the record I think both towns are cool. I lived in denton for 9 and a half years and have been in dallas for the past 4 years. If the cities would stop all of the fighting and work together to make shit happen DFW would benfit from it. That means Fort Worth too. There is plenty of stuff going on here. What makes Austin "cooler?" is the fact that people actually make stuff happen there. Record stores, Radio Staions, Free Jazz festivals, SXSW(for better or worse), indie labels, DIY shows.
less fighting.more getting shit done.
i recently visited the metrognome venue in fort worth and man they are getting it done. they actually have something exciting going on. we should all come together and celebrate each other and really work together more to put on some mind blowing gatherings. the people are here. the talent is here. the space is most certainly here. we just need to let go of the anger and be more positive to one another. no one else is going to do it. it has to come from within.
amen brutha
uh...just wanted to say Deadboy & The Elephantmen ruled the world last night. Great show and an AMAZINGLY great crowd. Wasn't sure I was really in Dallas on a Wednesday night.
true enough.
yes Scott.this thread exists. I have been trying to get a show with your band for over 2 years. neither of my bands ever get invited to play denton shows. Nowadays I have a harder time getting a decent show in Denton than in Austin and almost everytime I ask a Denton band to play a show they either flake out or have better things to do. This has been consistent for several years. I catch attitude on a regular basis whenever i head up north to my old home town just because I am from Dallas or because I represent the old guard of Denton that a lot of these new kids have absolutely no respect for.
Wanz is right. The main problem with this whole stupid metroplex is not enough people making shit happen. Local labels, indie record stores, special theme gatherings like hoot nights (is Wanz' Nick Cave tribute the only one??), local festivals, DIY venues (there are so many strange holes in walls in Austin its unreal) .... But it all seems to be turning around a bit (and out of Deep Ellum, coincidence?) with the Metrognome, Laptop Deathmatch, until recently the Sanctuary, Beauty & the Beast, and all the great stuff happening in Denton, and the fact that in part due to forums like this people are for once actually taking note of the cool things happening in Denton (whereas before I get the sense it tended to get ignored and die on the vine due to lack of support). Musicians included, it's important for the Denton bands to play in FW and Dallas, and vice-versa. Support each other. Fra and Black Arm at the Cavern. URTU/Chimeneas/pAper chAse at the Sanctuary. Hotel Hotel & iDi*amin in FWorth. Stuff like that.
I'm always happy to see you Wanz.
When Secret Headquarters gets kicking in June, it's gonna be a whole nutha thing up in Denton, you know? Between what we're trying to do, and what Lars is already doing, and the fact that our operation is not entirely Denton-Centric, good things are gonna happen. And as you already know, I want you right there kicking ass.
good to know Scott. I look forward to it. This blog rocks. People actually talking about stuff uncensored. These discussions are long overdue.
blixa isn't it funny once one of the kings of denton is now exiled by the new generation...can you really blame them though i mean they were like 10 years old when the old denton was happening- they wouldn't have any idea about those days-
beer me
ok, that last post sounded like an old highschool football standout talking about the olden days
...they get it, they just weren't there... and probably dont care as much as you'd like them to.
thats my whole point it doesnt matter all of the stupid kids in denton now will be forgotten in ten years, etc. etc. dallas and fw too- seriously do you really think anyone will remember shit like record hop and fra pandolf, etc. i mean most of this shit is just pointless dung- nothing against the quality of the two bands i mentioned, they are good groups but will be forgotten
But, anon, that's okay. As long as you're digging it (record hop) right now, I mean, you even said we are a good group... How do I say this with out being a hippy... Yeah, fuck ten years... Maybe 8 years from now I'll make something that lasts... Maybe 80... Maybe never! For now, I'm with jacob... Beer me. I'll get you one too. Cuz it's NOW. Not THEN. Not LATER. I try not to over think it, dig?
Dallas/Denton is a lucky place we get all the shows.. and a low cost of living.. Good food, and in general great service at the resteraunts we goto.. which stems back to the low cost of living..
I travel for work.. and i'v met some great kids around this u.s... who are into great music but they never get to see the bands they love because.. 95% of the places in the u.s. hardly gets shows! and this is in citys 10 times the size of denton(this being said dallas is a top 10 city pop wise)..
so we should all be happy.. we get a bunch of shows(although there is a lot of lack luster stuff comming from locals.. but this seems to be changing)..and we have a low cost of living..
in austin.. you get.. good food(i'll admit the breakfast tacos there can't be beat).. bad service.. one of the fastest growing cost of livings.. and rich white kids trying to bum money off me when they got new fuckin shoes on their feet!
to anon with last comment on me,
I think it's hilarious thata lot of this new generation takes pot shots at me. We were not like that when I was there age(God I feel Old). My friends and I all had a lot of respect for the older bands that came before us. I moved to Denton right when the whole Fraternity of Noise thing was happening. Things just were not so cliquish. Hell's Lobby and all of that stuff. By time I had mazinga going strong and the whole roots rock and space rock thing was taking off in town that scene was all but dead. I have seen Baboon more than any other local band and that was just in the first 5 years that I lived here. Brutal Juice gave my band all of our first big shows. I see a lot of kids hatin just to hate. I dig the don't trust anyone over 30 vibe though. I just wish I was not over 30.Rock n Roll is a young man's game and I am sure not getting any younger.
Grayhairs rule! Without grayhairs we wouldnt have had that Jerry Garcia dude who was handing out the shrooms outside Melodica One ... Wanz, did you hear about the new Sivad comp???
blixa-
do you ever shut up?
the revolution
the new revolutionary power generation.
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