Victory!
posted by stonedranger at 11:02 AM
Wednesday, November 05, 2008
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51 Comments:
I'd love it if people would start an intelligent discussion about the election in this thread...
off to a good start here.
Foreign Policy: Obama has just had a Mandela moment. Question. Now that diplomacy will rule over jingoism, what are the people's thoughts on the kinds of partnerships, if any, the United States will have with China, Iran, and Russia. Discuss.
Don't know if it's possible on this board, but here's a try:
Okay, so we've breached some obstacles and reached a new milestone in our beautiful country's history. Good, so now what? Obama has the faith of millions and millions of people, including me, and he'd better bring the goods (I think he will). What sucks is that the next 9 or so weeks are going to be the longest of the last eight years - who knows what could happen!
The USA has just done essentially this: "Okay guys, we're down and almost out with no timeouts left - let's put the kid in! Any better ideas?" and I think that's exactly what we need.
it's finally hip to live in America again!
things O should do ASAP:
Close GUITMO and all torture farms!
Restructure our IRAQ strategy around repairing the country.
Restore our rights by getting rid of this wiretapping BS and the patriot act
Get it on with the economy, turn the lights down, maybe some massage oil...ahhhhh you know you want to fix those mortgages up baby, yeah that's right...mmm...
If he was married to a white women, then he would not of won.
mccain supporters had someone to vote against.
obama supporters had someone to vote for.
it is a good day.
I'm curious to see who his cabinet picks will be. I'm guessing Buffet and maybe Powell will make the list....as advisors at the least.
I know it's corny, but I woke up this morning excited about our future life in America for the first time since...the 90's? That's uplifting and disheartening at the same time.
Also - while I didn't vote for McCain, I thought he had a nice concession speech. The Bush Party would've dragged it out forever, called for recounts, and issued a snide concession. At least McCain went out with some class.
I never thought I would see this in my lifetime. My parents definately did not think they would see this in their lifetime. My mom was actually waterhosed at the march on washington. My father is a very jaded Political Science professor and close to retirment. Talking to them last night gave me tears of joy. I have put a lot of faith in Obama. I hope he does not let us down.
His pick of Rahm Emmanuel for Chief of Staff is a good start. I can't wait to hear more appointments.
Jingoism gone?? Obama's threats about pakistan border, threats against those harboring terrorists, and his commercials with military helicopters strafing war zones is very jingoistic.
i'm not saying that against... Obama.. I just don't want anyone to get any illusions of what is going on; and what is, and has been the American way as far as our foreign affairs.
black, white or dead prez, we (america) are still the world's enemy. I am still moving to canada in less than 8 years.
Most world leaders are well aware that this is an election cycle for the U.S. and I'd guess they aren't too concerned with foreign policy threats designed to woo voters on either side. IMHO: In order to win more of the women vote for example, Obama needed to make people in this country feel safe. I don't believe any of those signifiers are justified sans diplomacy and therefore not essentialy jingoist. In fact I believe that this might be the beginning of the end to United States' aggresive political nationalism; if only to extend our points globally and outward toward space creatures from other realms--that is, if they haven't already jangled there own jingoist tambourines into our fragile ape-like hippocampuses. Trust.
I'm a 52 year old jaded guy. I try not to get too hopeful, because politicians always disappoint. It's inherent in the process. That said, this result is quite amazing. I was born in 1956, the year the Montgomery Bus Boycott ended. I remember segregated facilities quite clearly. Maybe this is largely symbolic, but symbols matter.
I agree completely about shutting down gitmo. If he does that on day one, well, that would be a wonderful start. No more Torture. I can't tell you how sick it makes me that we even have to debate that. I've met torture survivors.
I also agree about the cabinet. Part of me hopes he keeps Gates. He strikes me as someone with integrity. I'd love to see him reach across party lines, really shake things up.
Part of me is sad for Obama, he's got a hell of a job ahead.
the fragile ape-like hippocampuses
If someone doesn't use that as a band name I will.
Actually, I kinda like The Jingoist Tambourines, too.
Outside of the obvious leap forward in the rehabilitation of a tenuous and conflicted race dynamic, I'm just elated that we have now have a president who is pretty much my age.
My whole life I've had always had to make sense of some grandpa figure who was a full generation removed from my peer group's thought process.
Kinda like how all of you guys feel about me.
That said, how great is going to be to have a president who can actually think on his feet? A guy who doesn't need his VP or some PR hack telling him exactly what to say and how to say it?
Wow. Lemme upgrade ya.
How cool is going to be to have an intellectual in the most important leadership position in the world? And can this man keep the lobbyists, parasites, gun nuts and short-sellers at arm's length?
Cross your fingers.
I sent those "Hope" & "Progress" pictures to people at work and they said it reminded them of Hitler...
Liles.. I'm not sure what the issue is with short-sellers is? They are a healthy part of the stock market, and when short-selling was stopped a few weeks ago it actually hurt the general public(401ks get hurt when don't get revenue from lending out shares for short as they do this for a service fee.. no shorts no service fees), and helped out large banking institutions..
Shorts are good for the economy.. they guarantee a 2 stock sells 2 stock buys.. they keep the market going.. and are a good way to help decide market bottoms, and keep up, and down swings to a minimal(notice the up, and down craziness during the short selling stoppage)
now blind short selling.. very illegal, and wrong..
Now you could make the arguments that puts, and calls(similar then shorting but these future markets based options) hurt the market.. but you will never see those stopped. as they are options on stocks, and not straight stock purchase..
one thing that did cause issues with the economy with the stock markets which obama is not going to fix, and the bail out continues to inflame is margin. when i saw margin spike about 12 or 14 weeks ago.. i knew the collapse was soon.. and thats really what caused the market collapse.. not housing(that got figured into stocks about a year ago; the insurance about 6 months ago).. the banks took margins from the highest level ever to non-existent.. without margin you are very limited in the amount of stocks you can purchase because you must purchase stocks with cash.. brokers limited on the amount of stocks they can purchase then there is limited purchases, and prices go down.. wayyyy down.. the bailout package is not to help banks lending out to you, and me.. they are there to help banks lend to each other so that the margin rates can go back up.. when margin goes back up we'll go back to a stock market which only has value because of the credit in the margins.. aka a fake evaluation of the market based off of credit..
this being said I oversimplified how margin works.. but most news outlets have way oversimplified the crisis we are in.. and what is going on is very very technical.
Exactly. The big financial crash wasn't caused by ONE problem. It was multiple compounded into one clusterfuck of a crisis. Yaay! Sure, Clinton's administration (both Dems and Reps) called for the deregulation of the housing market, but I highly doubt they had this in mind.
I agree with a lot I am hearing on this thread. I woke up with a much better feeling today. Much like the 2006 elections when the Dems secured majority seats in the House and Senate. Those majorities increased last night, in addition to (of course) the claiming of the executive branch. Remember though that even since the 2006 elections the Dems havn't done much to end the wars...and if they can't now...well, who will they have to blame?
I voted for Obama...but I still feel like we live in a country based on the illusion of choice, rather than a real democracy. I doubt that a real democracy would have terms like, "bi-partisan" or "throw-away-vote". We have the choice of Red or Blue...today is Blue's day. Unfortunately Red and Blue were bought and sold a long time ago. The bright side: man, it's nice to know we won't have to deal with McCain and Palin. And don't worry, I did notice what a historic day it is...and yes...we have come a long way since the government was run by a room full cranky old of white dudes who simply claimed that all were equal without living it. And while it is a landmark event...we have a long way to go.
I "like" Obama...and I'm hoping along with everyone else. I think he may be a damn good president. But, I'll be more excited when we see some results we can get behind...because hype is hype.
At least we have something to look forward to :) .
I have never been more excited. Although, I'm only 23, so I have seen only a few elections.
I was more excited that I drank some coffee today than I was about the future of this government.
2:24.. you are very correct.. bi-partisan, throw-away-vote, and party centric primaries are not parts of a democracy..
why can't we have 6 candidates even some from the same party in the main election?? instead we are given 2 guys always from the center.
i think one of the best things i've heard from someone in the past few weeks is..
democratic leadership may still wear a blue collar, and have a sack lunch.. but there heart is wearing a pin stripe suit, and reads the financials..
It's nice to see a president-elect who can speak for 2 minutes without inventing new words or generally sounding like a moron. The un-word "nucular" has been uttered so many times in the past eight years, and it grates on my soul. By the way, did Bush ever get those tourists he was after?
I have a question for those of you who think we need need six plus candidates in an election. I am curious, hypothetically of course, what some of these parties might be and how the American people would be able to "get behind" one candidate.
America is a diverse and all ready splintered group of people, I think a multi-party system would only promote class war fare.
Unrelated: Obama has said his favorite TV show is The Wire. That is pretty awesome.
His favourite album is : Blood On The Tracks
His favourite album is : Blood On The Tracks
hey, I only hit that once!
if we had 6 people running doesn't necessarily mean that it would be 6 parties.. i mean if we had 3 democrats running a couple republicans, and another party.. it would be more advantageous to 'the people'.. as this could allow more left leaning democrats, and libertarian republicans who are never allowed into the presidentials.. allowed into the presidentials..
but right now how things are.. the primary system guarantees centrist non-populace mediocre candidates rise to the top. or if a candidate gets nominated, and they don't fit that mold.. they then must run to the center as fast as possible..
My 91 year old great-grandmother (who has practically lived through it all, has had two strokes, still is sharp as whip, still drinks a can of Schlitz a day) told me this morning that she can finally die happy because she never thought she would see the day a black person was in charge of the country. I hope she doesn't die though, and I hope she passed her good genes on to me.
Cliff- Isn't that essentially what our Primary season is all about? If you take a look at the nominees on both sides, you will see some variety. On the democrat side we had mike Gravel (Libertartian), Obama (fresh, liberal AND black), Clinton (woman and democratic strong horse) and Dennis Kucinich (hippy). Republicans had Romney (Mormon), Ron Paul (???), Giulani (dumbass), Huckabee (conservative christian) and McCain (old man).
If Clinton (who I supported early in the primary) would have won the nomination I could go along with the same ole same ole argument. Clinton and Obama do not vary that much on core issues, but Clinton has ALOT more baggage than Obama. Two years of public vetting could not come up with anything career damaging enough to stop Obama.
I believe all of these candidates had a fair chance and some peoples voices were heard. Clinton was suppose to have the election in the bag, but look what happened. There were still 8 other tickets on the Denton County presidential ballot.
As for as the two sides of one centrist coing, the ACLU gives Obama an 82% and Biden a 91% lifetime ACLU Scorecard. You can compare that with McCain 22%. Did Obama have to pull to the center during the election? What candidate doesn't? With the popular vote still being relatively close, you can see why this is just good politics.
To Chad:
If you and the majority of people in the country prefer the illusion of choice to an actual democracy...then I would say that class war was fought and lost a long time ago. We lost, corporate america won.
chad.. U.S. primaries do not take place on the same day.. this year is the first time texas has come into play for primaries.. and it only took place for the democrats.. the u.s. primary system mainly allows for the white upper middle class centrists with party association of the north east to pick our presidential candidates.. i don't think that is very democratic.
why don't we run our 'free' elections like most other democracies.. there is a primary run off.. anyone reaching a certain percent(percent rates from 10 to 15%) of the vote can run in the general election in-consequential of party affiliation(how can we truly have a democracy if election law has words such as 'democrat' and 'republican' or 'party-affiliation').. this means you can have from 2 to 6 candidates running in the general election.. and in some cases the primary can mute a general election if there is a unanimous winner. Not only are these systems more democratic; they also reduce the cost of the election cycle.
Does this comments section have to end? Do we really have to go back to "fckn ghey as fehg" and "your shit sucks, 'cause I want it to" and "blhbityblahbity blah blah blah fail lol"? Dammit! What's wrong with having a badass music blog that just happens to have a bunch of intelligent folks that comment on it.
Anyway, I was hoping for the filibuster proof 60, but it looks like we'll just have to settle for 57 or 58. I don't think it matters too much, since Obama is going to be able to work with Dems and Pubs alike.
O GAWD.......................................
leave it out, would ya fuckers..
oh shit, i ALMOST forgot. altogether now: FUCK WANZ!
Rahm Emanuel is an interesting cat. Cut-throat tactician, brilliant negotiator. Part of the Clinton intellectual inner circle.
His take-no-prisoners style apparently runs in the family.
Rahm's brother is Ari Emanuel, a very successful Hollywood talent executive. Jeremy Piven's character "Ari Gold" on the HBO series Entourage is based on him.
Are you shitting me? Thats crazy.
i heard obama's inauguration speech will be in arabic
FYI, we already lost, "corporate america" transferred to the ideology of all rich, powerful persons/ groups whom have ruled the world since one family started bashing in the skulls of other families with weapons made of rocks attached to sticks for the sake of acquiring whatever the imagination creates as a sense of personal worth. this plus having way to many children till our species acts as an overlord disease eating away at whatever is left. vote potato in 2012 and i promise i will do all i can to bring our species population down to a truly realistic number such as 3.34 million worldwide. www.last.fm/music/p0tat0/777
This morning I heard on the radio that Obama and Bidon will very soon be given full access to everything Bush and his admins now have. And starting today the new guys are given the exact same daily breifings on what's really going down. This is a way to ensure a smooth transition. This to me is really exciting because it means that we don't have to wait all that long for the Dems to get the power because now they are getting the knowledge! That instantly trumps Bush's power so it's not like he has free reign to screw everything up even more in the next few weeks.
Ari was also the inspiration for Bob Odenkirk's character on The Larry Sanders show.
Larry Sanders Show was greatness.
7:43 .... did you not hear Mr. McCain? He told me that Barack is NOT in fact an Arab. To the contrary, he's actually a decent person.
cliff notes: you DO know that Barack's tough talk about Afghanistan and Pakistan was pretty much politically necessary to appease the military-loving populace. Now, how much of it he believes remains to be seen. He HAS expressed concern recently abhout the escalating civilian body count in Afghanistan. Yesterday the U.S. bombed a wedding, blasting about 50 civvies, mostly all women & children (apparently in Afghan weddings the women & kids hang out on one side, men on the other) into oblivion.
Afghan presiden Karzai basically sent out a very strong public condemnation. I guess Barack's point is that we need more ground troops to prevent the inaccurate/indiscriminate airstrikes. I suppose there's something to that. But it looks like at the end of the day it may be necessary to make some sort of agreement w/ the Taliban. Check out this excellent geopolitical commentary site .... www.stratfor.com .... and a column on the foreign policy dilemmas that await Obama ... it's under the free section to the left ... I'd drop the url but since you guys have apparently disabled the paste feature here that's a bit much to type. What's up w/ that anyways?
karzi??
dude, or dudette: you're basically a fag...
sorry, karzai..
yeah, that's right, i'm not perfect. but you CAN still fuck yerself.
are you talking to me, or are you talking to the afghani president (of the U.S. puppet type, he's not even Taliban) who isnt happy that we incinerated an entire wedding party into molten flesh?
mc.. I think you are proving my point of earlier. Jingoism is not going away in american politics. Even today at his first press conference he stated that iran having a nuclear weapon was completely unacceptable, and not tolerated[i'm paraphrasing of course].
on a completely different note..
We had to disable copy and paste, people wore being jerks, and doing bad things with it.. it sucks.. but what can you do.
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